Modded Xbox banned from Live Service
- Thread starter zero0w
- Start date
RatTrap
GODLIKE
yep.. wich is the problem with all online games.. and is the main reason why most don't ban the serial number.. but the acount..
imo.. MS is stupid.. they could handle this so much better.. they don't have to ban the serial or the machine.. they could just make it so you have to make an acount.. and everytime you use that acount.. you check for a mod chip.. and if the acount is used in conjunction with a modded xbox.. bam.. byebye acount..
and the serial would still be usable if someone went and bought their legit xbox..
eather way.. MS will probably find a good solution for this.. only thing is.. it costs them money.. and i'm sure they will get hacked again.. and it'll cost them more money.. and more and more..
by next year they'll be admitting to losing more money then even they admitted to be loosing i bet.. coz this is not gonna be cheap on them..
imo.. MS is stupid.. they could handle this so much better.. they don't have to ban the serial or the machine.. they could just make it so you have to make an acount.. and everytime you use that acount.. you check for a mod chip.. and if the acount is used in conjunction with a modded xbox.. bam.. byebye acount..
and the serial would still be usable if someone went and bought their legit xbox..
eather way.. MS will probably find a good solution for this.. only thing is.. it costs them money.. and i'm sure they will get hacked again.. and it'll cost them more money.. and more and more..
by next year they'll be admitting to losing more money then even they admitted to be loosing i bet.. coz this is not gonna be cheap on them..
RatTrap
GODLIKE
nah.. would'nt need to involve money in any way..
what ever for.. the systems can be automated.. the only cost would be the one from when you build the system that handles the acount checking.. and maybe supporting this system so it's up to date with the latest hacks..
other than that.. i don't think it would cost more money.. in fact i'm pretty sure it would cost less.. and make less ppl unhappy on their buy of a brand new Xbox that "doesn't deliver"..
not only that.. imagine how much trouble and time + money it would cost MS to backtrack all these serials.. checking if ppl working in gaming stores stole the serial or whatever else.. would cost too much time and effort plus money for it all to ever get anywhere..
so that is one of the solutions that are proven and that work today.. and it's widelly used by many other companies allready out on the internet.. some with success.. others with not so much success coz they don't seem to have the man power to keep it all up to date.. (blizzard, EA, westwood)..
also there's some really revolutionary and more advanced security measures being taken in online gaming out in japan.. the .hack//sign and liminality games are pretty good proof of that.. among a bunch of others that will probably come out here in the near future for both consoles and PC..
the only trouble i see with this system.. is that you could still mod your xbox.. and "switch" the mod chip off (if that is possible i dunno.. but it don't seem inpossible).. and then you could be able to use the xbox online.. then you could get offline.. switch mod chip on.. and play your games all you like..
the thing with that problem is.. you can do that today anyways.. coz if you buy an xbox.. mod it.. and then unmod it to go online.. then go offline and mod it again.. your basicly doing the same thing.. and you can't get detected eather way.. so there's not much MS can do about that eather way.. so that problem would still stand any way they try to deal with this.. but at least this way.. they can make sure that xbox buyers that are new to the xbox live experiance don't get their serials band b4 hand.. wich in my opinion.. is the main thing they should be looking out for atm..
what ever for.. the systems can be automated.. the only cost would be the one from when you build the system that handles the acount checking.. and maybe supporting this system so it's up to date with the latest hacks..
other than that.. i don't think it would cost more money.. in fact i'm pretty sure it would cost less.. and make less ppl unhappy on their buy of a brand new Xbox that "doesn't deliver"..
not only that.. imagine how much trouble and time + money it would cost MS to backtrack all these serials.. checking if ppl working in gaming stores stole the serial or whatever else.. would cost too much time and effort plus money for it all to ever get anywhere..
so that is one of the solutions that are proven and that work today.. and it's widelly used by many other companies allready out on the internet.. some with success.. others with not so much success coz they don't seem to have the man power to keep it all up to date.. (blizzard, EA, westwood)..
also there's some really revolutionary and more advanced security measures being taken in online gaming out in japan.. the .hack//sign and liminality games are pretty good proof of that.. among a bunch of others that will probably come out here in the near future for both consoles and PC..
the only trouble i see with this system.. is that you could still mod your xbox.. and "switch" the mod chip off (if that is possible i dunno.. but it don't seem inpossible).. and then you could be able to use the xbox online.. then you could get offline.. switch mod chip on.. and play your games all you like..
the thing with that problem is.. you can do that today anyways.. coz if you buy an xbox.. mod it.. and then unmod it to go online.. then go offline and mod it again.. your basicly doing the same thing.. and you can't get detected eather way.. so there's not much MS can do about that eather way.. so that problem would still stand any way they try to deal with this.. but at least this way.. they can make sure that xbox buyers that are new to the xbox live experiance don't get their serials band b4 hand.. wich in my opinion.. is the main thing they should be looking out for atm..
Raging Fuel
The jumbles man, the jumbles
Rattrap: I think you misunderstood was alpha was saying. He says that it should cost money for the USER to set up an account. That way, they would not want to have the account banned, because it would cost them money to make another one. I'm not really sure how the Xbox Live works with payment, so maybe they already have this system in place.
Trotterwatch
New member
Just checked out what Gabe said, and have to agree with it myself. It is a legitimate measure to lock out people with modded machines - the only problem is when it starts to lock out legitimate users, as it will probably end up doing.
RatTrap
GODLIKE
Raging Fuel said:
nope.. i know exactly what he means.. and what you mean.. but why do that.. they don't even have to do that..
if the system checks for mod chipps in acounts all the time anyways.. no modded xbox will be able to get online.. so there would'nt be any trouble.. and nobody would have to pay more just to get their online gaming thing going.. wich very few would pay for..
as you know many other companies have tried the "pay per month" thing.. and even the "pay to get inside" thing.. without success.. if you generalise.. it's just a bad idea.. especially if someone tries your serial that you allready have paid for.. and steals it and uses it and the systems checks it and finds the person who stole it has a modded xbox.. then next time you go to use it.. you can't.. coz somsone used it with a modded box and your screwed coz you gotta pay for another acount even though you have been legit all along..
so that's just a bad idea.. even more troublesome coz of all the fake emails xbox live support would get about their acounts being stolen and etc..
like i'm telling you.. the system i described is in use by other companies with alot of success.. it works and will work for a long time.. coz nobody looses any money this way.. and as long as money is not involved.. ppl will come back.. like they all do for something that's "free"..
AlphaWolf
I prey, not pray.
RatTrap said:
But see theres a flaw in that thinking, theres no way to always be able to detect mod chips, people will always come up with new ways of preventing the detection of mod chips, then microsoft will always come up with ways of detecting those anti-detection systems. Hence the "battle between good and evil" I've been describing. It will never stop, and people will ALWAYS be trying to cheat in multiplayer games. I am on the same ground as microsoft here, as I myself would love to see a stop to multiplayer game cheating too, I don't realy give a damn about piracy. If somebody has to risk paying $40 every time they decide to cheat, believe me, the cheating will go way down.
blizz
New member
DuDe said:
yet again Gabe gets a broomstick shoved up his arse when banging the obvious into a hole, you'd think he'd know by now not to wax off lyrically on those people, he's like a battered wife going back to her husband even though he's a bastard, "Oh he loves me really" / "Oh they love me really."
(not a cool metaphor I know but I'll be buggered backwards If I'm going to tone myself down today)
anyway
people will always cheat, I think it's in our genes that we like to cheat people out of what they earned the hard way (see, The Lottery/ gambling) and
my major problem with X-Box live is the reserved gamer tags, Europe got fucked on that one, it would have been much more sensible to do like ICQ and give everyone a number (insert Prisoner joke here) but Microsoft rarely if ever try to be sensible
it'll be interesting to see how Microsoft handle it in the future though (Since this is one big live beta test for Palladium), maybe we'll see some of those clever multipart updates which do fuck all until the last piece drops into place
RatTrap
GODLIKE
AlphaWolf said:
that's not the point..
the point is the system i'm describing does the same that the system they have up right now.. they still need to keep this battle up.. it's just like it is atm.. but you seem to not see the problem.. if these ppl "hacking" their way in.. (i suppose they'll feel all l33t when they manage to "guess" or steal someone elses x-box ID and start calling themselfs hackers).. when they steal your ID and you fuxor your online gaming.. guess who has to pay to be able to get online again?.. and guess how believeable you'll sound on a complaint email sent to MS.. haha.. they'll just laugh at you and say YOU where the one cheating and that's why you gotta pay 40$$ AGAIN..
that is why the system is good.. no money.. no problem.. the only diference is that they won't have ppl complaining and having to pay 40$$ all the time someone steals their ID.. that's the only diference.. all else is the same.. but all the other problems can't be helpd anyways.. so the battle between good and evil has nothing that could really stop it.. but at least this way they would make the ppl who are legit.. not end up unf'd over in the crossfire..
AlphaWolf
I prey, not pray.
Rattrap: thats the way many current multiplayer games are working, when you are cought cheating with your cdkey, your banned from public games....diablo2 just to name one. Thus far there have been no complaints.
What they have to do is assign serial keys the way most modern games do, its up to the user to make a 1 in a million guess for a random cdkey that happens to match that of somebody else and be valid on the server. If you don't do it, people will always cheat, and there will always be that ever so annoying doubt in your mind when your playing against a phenominal player...are they cheating or not?
What they have to do is assign serial keys the way most modern games do, its up to the user to make a 1 in a million guess for a random cdkey that happens to match that of somebody else and be valid on the server. If you don't do it, people will always cheat, and there will always be that ever so annoying doubt in your mind when your playing against a phenominal player...are they cheating or not?
RatTrap
GODLIKE
AlphaWolf : (you started the name calling 
.. )
i play D2:Lod more then i play anything else.. i have more then a couple of lvl 99 chars in that game.. believe me i know how it works.. i've been around since D2 started out.. i was even a member of the oldest Lod clan there was for quite some time.. untill most left the game..
your CD-key is NOT! banned.. it's your account.. for a CD-Key ban you have to have donne something that would genuingly hurt the servers.. as in make the network lag massive amounts.. one of these cheats was the chest-hack.. it made it so when you clicked on a chest in the game.. it would drop around 1000 items to the ground.. when it normally would just drop 1-5.. this made the servers lag tremendously.. and ppl could hardly even make any games anymore.. so all those users using this cheat got bannd.. most didn't get their CD-keys banned eather..
the CD-key thing is true.. D2 uses a CD-Key.. much like a serial.. but the diference is.. they alsy use accounts.. and what you go by to get inside.. is the account info.. if you don't have a valid CD-Key then you can't get in.. true.. but at the same time.. these CD-keys aren't hard to steal.. you believe because you don't hear that much about it.. that it doesn't happen.. well that wrong.. it happends alot.. i actually know ppl who have donne that.. i've had 3 CD-Keys up untill now.. yes i've bought Lod 3 times.. i hated the fact that i was forced to do so all 3 times.. but neather of those times was my CD-Key banned.. all 3 times it was stolen.. i found myself logging in and seeing "someone else is using your CD-Key".. and it's not like i gave it away.. i didn't even know it myself.. it's a long series of numbers i have in a closet inside the game box..
also.. i know your saying that they aren't aloud to join normal games.. but that's not eather entirelly true.. they are not aloud to join games created by normal chars with password.. but normal chars can join cheaters games with or without password too.. in the end the change doesn't do anything more than prevent a sertain type of hack that never has been released to the public allowing someone to see the password a user used when they made a game with password to transfer some items..
the CD-Key thing.. it's not at all hard to come by.. actually.. with the help of realtime online hex editing.. wich is used in most games.. hackers can run tests on 1000 CD-Keys just like on any other server application.. if you believe your password is hackproog.. then your wrong.. any password can be hacked.. all it takes is time.. and if a guy knowing how and has time.. he can practically run a tool that will test a few 1000 serials a day.. whenever he isn't using the computer.. he doesn't even have to use his own.. there's allways loopholes and ways to get in..
the one thing they have never stolen from me are my accounts.. and that is coz i have a pretty tight security in my system.. and i don't download any crap i find.. so i haven't had any trojans to get my acc's stolen yet..
eather way......
the things i have been talking about have NOTHING to do with cheats or other crap going on inside the network.. it's about what goes on outside.. b4 they enter.. i never said anything about how to handle cheaters inside the network.. this system is only a good system to prevent loss.. for both Xbox Live and for Xbox live users.. think of all the pissed ppl who have to pay everytime they get hacked.. who knows later on there might come a shit load of downloadable crap for xbox that ppl might download and end up having a trojan.. how easy would'nt it be to get a serial thru that?.. sure you could argue that it's the users fault for downloading such crap in the first place.. but you will still have more and more unsatisfied custumers.. in the end the responsability falls on MS.. not because it's ethically correct.. but coz ppl will blame them anyways.. so why let ppl blame them?.. instead build a system where you can't be blamed for the shit that goes on.. and make it easy to get back in if your legit..
if the acount is banned.. alright.. cool.. i'll create another.. and be able to play in minutes.. and since i'm legal i'll get in.. the other guy who stole my acount info won't get in with my old acount coz he has no use for it.. since the system will check for the mod chip anyways.. and he still doesn't have my serial number.. wich is the main thing here.. exposing a serial number can be alot more riskier then exposing an acount name and password.. in other words.. stealing acounts and serials won't be needed.. then they won't even TRY to steal such things and it'll be alot simpler for them (MS) to make sure everyone online isn't using a MOD chip.. and are content.. they will also save money on investigating who is the right owner of said serial.. and have too many ppl answering to emails about this or that guy stealing my serial.. in the end.. everyone winns but the mod-chippers..
.. )i play D2:Lod more then i play anything else.. i have more then a couple of lvl 99 chars in that game.. believe me i know how it works.. i've been around since D2 started out.. i was even a member of the oldest Lod clan there was for quite some time.. untill most left the game..
your CD-key is NOT! banned.. it's your account.. for a CD-Key ban you have to have donne something that would genuingly hurt the servers.. as in make the network lag massive amounts.. one of these cheats was the chest-hack.. it made it so when you clicked on a chest in the game.. it would drop around 1000 items to the ground.. when it normally would just drop 1-5.. this made the servers lag tremendously.. and ppl could hardly even make any games anymore.. so all those users using this cheat got bannd.. most didn't get their CD-keys banned eather..
the CD-key thing is true.. D2 uses a CD-Key.. much like a serial.. but the diference is.. they alsy use accounts.. and what you go by to get inside.. is the account info.. if you don't have a valid CD-Key then you can't get in.. true.. but at the same time.. these CD-keys aren't hard to steal.. you believe because you don't hear that much about it.. that it doesn't happen.. well that wrong.. it happends alot.. i actually know ppl who have donne that.. i've had 3 CD-Keys up untill now.. yes i've bought Lod 3 times.. i hated the fact that i was forced to do so all 3 times.. but neather of those times was my CD-Key banned.. all 3 times it was stolen.. i found myself logging in and seeing "someone else is using your CD-Key".. and it's not like i gave it away.. i didn't even know it myself.. it's a long series of numbers i have in a closet inside the game box..
also.. i know your saying that they aren't aloud to join normal games.. but that's not eather entirelly true.. they are not aloud to join games created by normal chars with password.. but normal chars can join cheaters games with or without password too.. in the end the change doesn't do anything more than prevent a sertain type of hack that never has been released to the public allowing someone to see the password a user used when they made a game with password to transfer some items..
the CD-Key thing.. it's not at all hard to come by.. actually.. with the help of realtime online hex editing.. wich is used in most games.. hackers can run tests on 1000 CD-Keys just like on any other server application.. if you believe your password is hackproog.. then your wrong.. any password can be hacked.. all it takes is time.. and if a guy knowing how and has time.. he can practically run a tool that will test a few 1000 serials a day.. whenever he isn't using the computer.. he doesn't even have to use his own.. there's allways loopholes and ways to get in..
the one thing they have never stolen from me are my accounts.. and that is coz i have a pretty tight security in my system.. and i don't download any crap i find.. so i haven't had any trojans to get my acc's stolen yet..
eather way......
the things i have been talking about have NOTHING to do with cheats or other crap going on inside the network.. it's about what goes on outside.. b4 they enter.. i never said anything about how to handle cheaters inside the network.. this system is only a good system to prevent loss.. for both Xbox Live and for Xbox live users.. think of all the pissed ppl who have to pay everytime they get hacked.. who knows later on there might come a shit load of downloadable crap for xbox that ppl might download and end up having a trojan.. how easy would'nt it be to get a serial thru that?.. sure you could argue that it's the users fault for downloading such crap in the first place.. but you will still have more and more unsatisfied custumers.. in the end the responsability falls on MS.. not because it's ethically correct.. but coz ppl will blame them anyways.. so why let ppl blame them?.. instead build a system where you can't be blamed for the shit that goes on.. and make it easy to get back in if your legit..
if the acount is banned.. alright.. cool.. i'll create another.. and be able to play in minutes.. and since i'm legal i'll get in.. the other guy who stole my acount info won't get in with my old acount coz he has no use for it.. since the system will check for the mod chip anyways.. and he still doesn't have my serial number.. wich is the main thing here.. exposing a serial number can be alot more riskier then exposing an acount name and password.. in other words.. stealing acounts and serials won't be needed.. then they won't even TRY to steal such things and it'll be alot simpler for them (MS) to make sure everyone online isn't using a MOD chip.. and are content.. they will also save money on investigating who is the right owner of said serial.. and have too many ppl answering to emails about this or that guy stealing my serial.. in the end.. everyone winns but the mod-chippers..
CpU MasteR
omg h4x
OK, Most of You seem to Be Lost on this...
Alright, You Connect to XBOX Live, Connects to the Server, Live finds out you got a Modded XBOX, It Bans your XBOX MAC ID, The Account & The Serial Number... People have already Successfully Changed the MAC & Serial & Live didnt have a problem with it...
Quote...
Now M$ is doing BIOS Checking(Maybe?)... They Check the CRC Size & If it is invalid, they connot connect...
Quote...
Hopes this Helps.. If Not... Disreguard...
Alright, You Connect to XBOX Live, Connects to the Server, Live finds out you got a Modded XBOX, It Bans your XBOX MAC ID, The Account & The Serial Number... People have already Successfully Changed the MAC & Serial & Live didnt have a problem with it...
Quote...
Now M$ is doing BIOS Checking(Maybe?)... They Check the CRC Size & If it is invalid, they connot connect...
Quote...
Hopes this Helps.. If Not... Disreguard...