Athlon 64 & Pentium 4

[Clements]

Ill give in on the athlon seeing as I have a 2500xp that is unlocked maybe my bud's bios is fsb locked, so you won, but what about your statement about intel cpus WILL BE LOCKED coment, you act like you work there or something.

the way cpus work is to get the clock speed (ie 1.87 for a 2500+) you multiply the multiplier by the front side bus. On the 2500+ the multiplier is 11 and the fsb is 166. Some some chips, it is possible to change the multiplier as a means of overclocking. You could change the 2500+ to 11.5x166. Multi-lock is when you can't change the multiplier. This is bad... very very bad. It makes it much harder to overclock because you can only change the fsb.

Emphasis on the bold. I know Bartons are multiplier locked after week 38 whatever it is. You are saying they are FSB locked. The guy says you can only change the FSB. This means that the FSB is NOT locked as I said ie NOT FSB LOCKED. This is the reason I stopped you, just a simple terminology error, that's all, not a real big deal. I own a Barton too, and I can o/c mine fine by modifying FSB.

Mobile Bartons are multiplier unlocked anyway, so you can up the multiplier AND FSB.

This means that your friend can overclock his Barton as easy as just upping the FSB in the BIOS, providing his mobo allows it which normally it should. If he can't change his FSB his motherboard or BIOS is at fault, not the CPU. You are lucky since you can up the multiplier AND FSB overclock at the same time.

Multiplier locked
FSB locked

= different things.

2500+ Bartons are multiplier locked after week 38. But these CPUs can be FSB overclocked still. You don't have to change the multiplier to overclock. My Barton is currently FSB underclocked since I can change FSB.

I hope this is very clear what I mean on this subject.

If there is something I have learned from cpu makers is never to believe on them until a product is out. I have sent you the link and you didnt comment on it.

The point in mentioning Intel was that in the future they will lock their FSB. You will need to buy certain motherboards to unlock it, and they can't 100% override the lock. Meanwhile AMD chips are completely FSB unlocked.

I read articles. No I don't work for Intel. Yes the processors are unreleased, but that doesn't nullify anything, since no one knows if the situation will change, but as it stands, FSB locked by default for the future Intel CPUs mentioned in the link I presented earlier from a more non-biased source and not a mobo manufacturer site.

This thread is getting passed it's usefulness. I don't enjoy having to explain these simple things over and over. lain:

 

[achiles]

I read articles. No I don't work for Intel. Yes the processors are unreleased, but that doesn't nullify anything, since no one knows if the situation will change, but as it stands, FSB locked by default for the future Intel CPUs mentioned in the link I presented earlier from a more non-biased source and not a mobo manufacturer site.
. lain:

non biased? Previewers are among the most scrutinized members of the computer media simply because they get paid from the same companies that they review, not to mention the fact that they get testing examples from them, and that aplies for both intel and amd. motherboard manufacturers are among the most honest manufacturers you will find in this bussiness simply becuase most of them have the same products, and some of them make them on the same factory. Will these new cpu make a difference on chankast and newer emulators I dont know, I dont have one, so I cant say what stands and what doesn't. I just hope that they become faster, more reliable, I easier to program on.

 

[Heinster]

Well at Tomshardware site one year AMD is judged as best other year Intel.... So I can't say they allways judged AMD or Intell better untill now......

 

[Lilwolf]

well.

One thing that keeps says... amd faster... no intels faster...

THEY BOTH ARE!

depends on what your more interested in... floating point or integer based calculations. Different parts are optimized in different ways.

BUT...

AMD has ALWAYS been best price / performance in ANY test. That is really the only thing you can say 100%

 

[Strange]

indeed...

 

[Nightmare]

yeah ! but who make research/improvements ? INTEL ! amd just wait intel's improvements and copy it... there is a reason for this price...
and remember that SSE appeared with the first P3 400/450 Mghz, and on amd it'd appeared only at a speed of 1,4 Ghz... 1 Ghz between them...

 

[cooliscool]

yeah ! but who make research/improvements ? INTEL ! amd just wait intel's improvements and copy it... there is a reason for this price...
and remember that SSE appeared with the first P3 400/450 Mghz, and on amd it'd appeared only at a speed of 1,4 Ghz... 1 Ghz between them...

Err, no, AMD introduced 3DNow! which is essentially a weaker SSE (floating point simd), in the K6-2, which started at 300MHz. Intel copied AMD with FPU simd. Without AMD making 3DNow!, SSE prolly wouldn't exist, at least not at that time.

 

[Strange]

2 Nightmare
lol - you are TOTALLY WRONG... Since Athlon was released, there in no any similar things in AMDs CPUs and Intel ones - only patented technologies like SSE. And really - SSE was even on P3, but 3DNow! was even on AMD_K5 and P4 doesn`t have 3DNow! and 3DNow!+ too... So your example in not good... So reason for this price is only one - its just a intel brand - thats all.

 

[Nightmare]

Err, no, AMD introduced 3DNow! which is essentially a weaker SSE (floating point simd), in the K6-2, which started at 300MHz. Intel copied AMD with FPU simd. Without AMD making 3DNow!, SSE prolly wouldn't exist, at least not at that time.

3Dnow is appeared to counter MMX (pentium2), amd haven't any mmx intructons, and make some improvements yes, but intel has react with his sse, and we know why sse is needed... without 128 bits registers chankast can't work...
after that, amd has clearly followed intel...
programs are based on pentium/mmx/sse/sse2 instructions set, not on amd instructions set, try to find over the net the informations about amd instructions...

now they made an improvement with their Athlon64, but if intel add something on his next cpu generation (and be sure they'll do) the Athlon64 users will be verry happy...

Edit* 2 strange
how many program use specific 3Dnow features, do you know that ?, ALL programs are based on pentium/mmx/sse/sse2 instructions set...
(i know some program who used specific 3Dnow features but it was just as option, quickly abandonned, to the profit of intel standard )

 

[cooliscool]

No it wasn't meant to counter MMX, they are two totally different things. MMX = integer, 3DNow! = FPU. It was made to help out the K6-x's slow FPU, just needed developer support. Just about all current games/video card drivers use 3DNow!/3Dnow!+/MMX+/MMX/SSE/SSE2. SSE3 is in the Prescott Pentium4s, but it's a new set so support will take a while to sink in.

MMX was not a P2 thing either, it was introduced in the middle of the P1's life (most 166MHz Pentiums and higher have it).

 

[Nightmare]

No it wasn't meant to counter MMX, they are two totally different things. MMX = integer, 3DNow! = FPU.

i said counter, not improve.

Edit * oops, i said improve later, but not in that sens...
mmx = multimedia (for professional market)
3dnow = fpu for 3D (for gamer market)

 

[cooliscool]

FPU for gaming? The FPU is used in alot more than just gaming and 3D stuff.. audio processing, video processing..

 

[Nightmare]

FPU for gaming? The FPU is used in alot more than just gaming and 3D stuff.. audio processing, video processing..

yes, fpu can be used in lot of apps, but the marketing target was the gamer... (i don't think they had targeted 3D/audio/video artists, and for audio/video floating point are not heavily used).

 

[WhiteX]

Well, I prefer Amd because here in Brazil it is a hell of lot cheaper and i am a cheap old hag!
Oh! And strange, 3dnow was only implemented by the time of k6-2.

 

[Stezo2k]

yeah ! but who make research/improvements ? INTEL ! amd just wait intel's improvements and copy it...

Thats statement is wrong, it's not just AMD using similar techniques

Don't forget, AMD released X86-64 nearly a year ago, and Intel are developing CPUs based on that architechture using reverse engineering.

 

[refraction]

I have an AMD 64 3400+ chip, the performance is very nice, but i know here AMD and Intel stand.

Intel: faster when it comes to stuff like Video Encoding and other application based software, seem to be nice and quick doing Math calculations due to SSE being different and more optimised on Intel chips.

AMD: On top when it comes to gaming, seems the processors have more of a nack at handling this over software apps, so is usually used in Gaming Rigs rather than professional Rigs.


AMD are really at a lower clock speed than Intel chips which could explain the performance difference and price difference, but from what speed they do have they make excellent use of.

 

[Nightmare]

Thats statement is wrong, it's not just AMD using similar techniques

Don't forget, AMD released X86-64 nearly a year ago, and Intel are developing CPUs based on that architechture using reverse engineering.

what do you mean by reverse engineering ? reverse engineering it's when you take an existing program/technologie (a cpu in this case) and make improvements wich doesn't existing yet (for programs it's generally for your own use)... but i think intel develop his own 64 bits based cpus since more than a year... you really think intel has used the 64bits architecture of amd ? intel has made modifications to be compatible with the A64 because there were only some small differencies (small, yes), and because the amd cpu was released before the intel one ... i don't see why you use reverse engineering if it's to return to the original one after... doesn't make any sens...
i have read articles saying intel has used amd's prerelease technical notes, but i can't believe that, theses notes just contain inputs/ouputs of the cpu and his general architecture, what do you want to do with that ? you can't change the core of the cpu with these infos...

Edit* and cpus, like programs, contain specific hidden signatures, so be sure that if intel has used A64's architecture/core, everybody will know that, soon or later...

 

[mezkal]

Thats statement is wrong, it's not just AMD using similar techniques

Don't forget, AMD released X86-64 nearly a year ago, and Intel are developing CPUs based on that architechture using reverse engineering.

Stezo, two points :-

Intel developed a 64bit platform based on shared information between HP (DEC's Superscalar Processor) and AMD some 4 years ago. Due to the nature of technology, by the time it reached the market it was just too slow. They have since capitulated to AMD in the 64bit stakes erring on the side of caution and letting AMD set the 64bit desktop market goal posts.

Intel has NEVER reverse engineered but they certainly have "appropriated" certain technologies through clever use of legal infrastructure. Infact it's AMD who have practically built thier whole business on reverse engineering practices: First with the K5 and later with certain DEC SuperScalar techniques that became 3DNow! Pro and thier 64bit long word interfaces.

 

[Heinster]

I have an AMD 64 3400+ chip, the performance is very nice, but i know here AMD and Intel stand.

Intel: faster when it comes to stuff like Video Encoding and other application based software, seem to be nice and quick doing Math calculations due to SSE being different and more optimised on Intel chips.

AMD: On top when it comes to gaming, seems the processors have more of a nack at handling this over software apps, so is usually used in Gaming Rigs rather than professional Rigs.


AMD are really at a lower clock speed than Intel chips which could explain the performance difference and price difference, but from what speed they do have they make excellent use of.

Spread the word brother

But when it really comes to differences in gaming then the real gaining in performence can be found in the graphicalcard and the differences in cpu pale in comparences of the differences the graphicalcards can cause.

I bet a AMD 2000 with a 9800pro will reign over a P4 3.0 with a 9600 pro in games like splintercell and others.....

Except ofcourse in emulation.... Emulation is 90% cpupower......

 

[Strange]

Hmm, and intel already built 64bit cpu, but not for home using - Itanium and Itanium2.