Resolution?

[nephalim]

I've got a laptop, with a SXGA+ LCD Screen. This means that no matter what the situation is, the resolution i'm looking at is 1400x1050, period. I'm sure you all knew that. But anyway, here's my question.

Let's say i'm doing some N64 emulation. Would it be better to set the N64 GFX plugin to 1400x1050 and let the N64 plugin do the scaling, or would it be better to set it to 640x480 and let my GFX card do the scaling. FYI, I hear ATI has the best scaling on the market, i've never noticed any scaling issues in the slightest bit, so at least there's one thing my card can do well.

Another possibility would be to set the resolution in the GFX Plugin to something close to my screen size and not use scaling. What would be the proper multiple, 1280x960? That would fit nicely, I wouldn't be missing TOO much of my screen size.

What do you think?

 

[Trotterwatch]

The best way would be for you to try it and see which looks the best to your eyes.

 

[AlphaWolf]

It sounds like you are using a laptop similar to mine...I assume its either dell or toshiba?

I would upgrade your video card for starters. ATI mobility cards do have good scaling, but not your specific card. It's called the smoothscale or something feature, it makes any resolution look decent on about any size screen.

While at home, I connect my laptop to a regular CRT, I would do the same thing if I were you. No matter how good any LCD may be, it simply wont do justice for games. When I am on the go, I typicaly use 800x600 res in games as it scales perfectly at 4x, but then again my LCD does 1600x1200.

 

[nephalim]

It sounds like you are using a laptop similar to mine...I assume its either dell or toshiba?

I would upgrade your video card for starters. ATI mobility cards do have good scaling, but not your specific card. It's called the smoothscale or something feature, it makes any resolution look decent on about any size screen.

While at home, I connect my laptop to a regular CRT, I would do the same thing if I were you. No matter how good any LCD may be, it simply wont do justice for games. When I am on the go, I typicaly use 800x600 res in games as it scales perfectly at 4x, but then again my LCD does 1600x1200.

You have a laptop yet at the same time you are telling me to upgrade my video card? You do know that's nearly impossible, right? They don't sell laptop cards retail, they are nearly impossible to find, and the computer maker won't upgrade them.

My motherboard WILL work with a geforce2go, that's my only other option, however the only place to get one that I know of is dell, they won't sell them to you, they won't let you pay for an upgrade, and doing it yourself not only will void your warranty but probably destroy your machine. :doh:

(FYI, as you can deduce, it's a Dell.)

 

[AlphaWolf]

You have a laptop yet at the same time you are telling me to upgrade my video card? You do know that's nearly impossible, right? They don't sell laptop cards retail, they are nearly impossible to find, and the computer maker won't upgrade them.

My motherboard WILL work with a geforce2go, that's my only other option, however the only place to get one that I know of is dell, they won't sell them to you, they won't let you pay for an upgrade, and doing it yourself not only will void your warranty but probably destroy your machine. :doh:

(FYI, as you can deduce, it's a Dell.)

Ah but you're wrong. In fact I just ordered an ATI M9, its due to arrive any day now. I'll be glad to post pics of when I install it into my laptop when it does arrive. The salesperson that I ordered it from informed me that the cards warranty is 90 days or the duration of the warranty of my laptop, whichever is longer, and mine has over a year and a half remaining. They don't void your warranty for taking it apart either, at least they don't void mine anyways, they specificaly told me this.

If dell were like compaq or gateway, they would not only void your warranty, but they wouldn't post complete assembly instructions for your system on their website. But they are not compaq or gateway If you read on that page, they say: "Damage or inoperability due to servicing not authorized by Dell is not covered by your warranty.", which means go ahead and do whatever you want with it, but any dammage that YOU cause will not be covered.

What brand LCD do you use? And what model is your laptop? (e.g. inspiron 8x00, etc) How old is your laptop? All these factors determine what video card you can upgrade to (the LCD brand and model is the biggest factor BTW) Upgrading an inspiron video card is rather painless as well.

 

[Tagrineth]

I've got a laptop, with a SXGA+ LCD Screen. This means that no matter what the situation is, the resolution i'm looking at is 1400x1050, period. I'm sure you all knew that. But anyway, here's my question.

Easy answer:

Figure out how to get the plugin to run a custom resolution.

Run the emu at 700x525.

Problem solved. :flowers:

 

[vampireuk]

The best way would be for you to try it and see which looks the best to your eyes.

Nail was hit on the head, forget what resolutions people fine best. Use what YOU like and what YOU think is comfortable. Otherwise you could have some very nasty headaches =\

 

[The Khan Artist]

While at home, I connect my laptop to a regular CRT, I would do the same thing if I were you. No matter how good any LCD may be, it simply wont do justice for games. When I am on the go, I typicaly use 800x600 res in games as it scales perfectly at 4x, but then again my LCD does 1600x1200.

I saw this Dell laptop once, I think it was an Inspiron 8000, and the screen just blew me away. It was only 15 inches or so, but it ran at 1600x1200, and looked aboslutely awesome. Perfectly clear, didn't hurt the eyes, and was very easy to read.

 

[AlphaWolf]

I saw this Dell laptop once, I think it was an Inspiron 8000, and the screen just blew me away. It was only 15 inches or so, but it ran at 1600x1200, and looked aboslutely awesome. Perfectly clear, didn't hurt the eyes, and was very easy to read.

Right, they are nice and clear and whatnot, but all LCDs have a latency period of 50ms between when any given pixel changes (fades) from one color to another. For regular computer usage, this is fine, but when your playing games online, it can get extremely annoying.

 

[Cyberman]

Right, they are nice and clear and whatnot, but all LCDs have a latency period of 50ms between when any given pixel changes (fades) from one color to another. For regular computer usage, this is fine, but when your playing games online, it can get extremely annoying.

Well all LCDs do not have a 50ms resfresh memory problem. Why do I know this? IBM made a laptop LCD with field sequential color, this displays RED GREEN and BLUE fields sequentially at 3 times the vertical rate. OR in otherwords 180hz frames. That's 5.4ms per frame. These LCD's aren't cheap but are cheaper than the current 4 filter system commonly used in color LCDs they aren't easy to manufacture however, active matrix helps (you can control the bias on an individual pixel with a pair of fet transitors and thus increase the responsiveness by reducing the drive power). Even with active matrix the phase change response time is still an issue with a lot of LCD's Samsung and Philips make LCD's with the least problems with this.

This soon will be changing, newer LCD's will have a much faster change response time in them. They've been working on this problem for many years (and active matrix was one solution the other was dual scan). I would say 18 months before you HEAR about the changes and another 6 months before you can buy them. Such is life

Cyb

 

[nephalim]

Ah but you're wrong. In fact I just ordered an ATI M9, its due to arrive any day now. I'll be glad to post pics of when I install it into my laptop when it does arrive. The salesperson that I ordered it from informed me that the cards warranty is 90 days or the duration of the warranty of my laptop, whichever is longer, and mine has over a year and a half remaining. They don't void your warranty for taking it apart either, at least they don't void mine anyways, they specificaly told me this.

If dell were like compaq or gateway, they would not only void your warranty, but they wouldn't post complete assembly instructions for your system on their website. But they are not compaq or gateway If you read on that page, they say: "Damage or inoperability due to servicing not authorized by Dell is not covered by your warranty.", which means go ahead and do whatever you want with it, but any dammage that YOU cause will not be covered.

What brand LCD do you use? And what model is your laptop? (e.g. inspiron 8x00, etc) How old is your laptop? All these factors determine what video card you can upgrade to (the LCD brand and model is the biggest factor BTW) Upgrading an inspiron video card is rather painless as well.

While the technician might have told you it's ok, it'd bet you anything he made a big mistake, and your warranty will be voided. Call customer service (make sure it's the right department, there are many) and check. Are you sure that card will even work on your mobo? The whole thing sounds VERY fishy, but I don't mean to sound accusatory. You'll probably be covered 'cause the guy told you so. But he's not right, at least if it was Dell.

"If dell were like compaq or gateway, they would not only void your warranty, but they wouldn't post complete assembly instructions for your system on their website."

They DO post complete installation instructions, hidden away. That doesn't mean they authorize you to use them.
BTW, have you ever serviced a laptop before? There is a very good reason why they don't allow you to user-service it.

"If you read on that page, they say: "Damage or inoperability due to servicing not authorized by Dell is not covered by your warranty.", which means go ahead and do whatever you want with it, but any dammage that YOU cause will not be covered."

That page is innacurate (as it says Dell.) TRUST me, opening your laptop is grounds for voiding your warranty, i've HAD mine voided.

I've also spent many an hour on the Dell Support Website along with many other Mobility M4'ers whining about how their system supports the Geforce 2go, but they can't buy one/get one/Dell will screw them.

Originally posted by AlphaWolf
Right, they are nice and clear and whatnot, but all LCDs have a latency period of 50ms between when any given pixel changes (fades) from one color to another. For regular computer usage, this is fine, but when your playing games online, it can get extremely annoying.

Well all LCDs do not have a 50ms resfresh memory problem. Why do I know this? IBM made a laptop LCD with field sequential color, this displays RED GREEN and BLUE fields sequentially at 3 times the vertical rate. OR in otherwords 180hz frames. That's 5.4ms per frame. These LCD's aren't cheap but are cheaper than the current 4 filter system commonly used in color LCDs they aren't easy to make however, activate matrix helps (you can control the bias on an individual pixel with a pair of fet transitors is what this does). It's still an issue with a lot of LCD's Samsung and Philips make LCD's with the least problem with this.

I don't know what LCD's you are talking about, but mine is a 15" IBM (I believe) SXGA +? Active Matrix LCD (which costs $600-something refurbished!) and it's absolutely breathtaking, even when playing games, I haven't noticed any refresh problem or anything like that. Dell uses the highest quality LCD's, that much I know. They use IBM for sure and one other brand I forget which, but I don't think Samsung or Phillips. I would never hook it up to a CRT unless I needed a big screen.

 

[AlphaWolf]

That page is innacurate (as it says Dell.) TRUST me, opening your laptop is grounds for voiding your warranty, i've HAD mine voided.

Realy? Well, when I had them replace my screen, I told them that I had taken the thing apart to look at the exact model number of the screen so that I could determine the compatibility. More to that fact, when the technician came over to do the servicing, I wasn't finished re-assembling it. But, it was not a problem, in fact they said nothing about it, they still swapped out the screen and the DVD-ROM drive which was also malfunctioning, and completed the re-assembly for me anyways.

Have you called dell spare parts? They probably have a GF2GO in stock. I personaly am selling my GF2GO to my brother who currently has an M4.

Also, there has only been *one* technician that has said anything bad about the warranty on the card, and that was that dell will not service the card I upgraded, as in they wont send a technician out to do the replacing like they will with my other parts, so if something goes wrong with the card, its my responsibility to take it out, and send it to dell for a free replacement.

If you want proof of this, you can find it right here: http://support.dell.com/us/en/kb/document.asp?DN=1033687

Upgrades ordered from Dell Spare Parts will be covered under any remaining warranty of the system.

 

[nephalim]

Realy? Well, when I had them replace my screen, I told them that I had taken the thing apart to look at the exact model number of the screen so that I could determine the compatibility. More to that fact, when the technician came over to do the servicing, I wasn't finished re-assembling it. But, it was not a problem, in fact they said nothing about it, they still swapped out the screen and the DVD-ROM drive which was also malfunctioning, and completed the re-assembly for me anyways.

Have you called dell spare parts? They probably have a GF2GO in stock. I personaly am selling my GF2GO to my brother who currently has an M4.

Also, there has only been *one* technician that has said anything bad about the warranty on the card, and that was that dell will not service the card I upgraded, as in they wont send a technician out to do the replacing like they will with my other parts, so if something goes wrong with the card, its my responsibility to take it out, and send it to dell for a free replacement.

If you want proof of this, you can find it right here: http://support.dell.com/us/en/kb/document.asp?DN=1033687

That link you gave me is for desktop systems.

Dell won't sell the Geforce 2go, nor any internal laptop components, this i'm POSITIVE of! Trust me, I was one of MANY people on their support boards whining about how we want an upgrade and Dell won't give us one! The policy might have changed since then though, in which case i'm an idiot, and i'm going to give them a call and see what they can do.

I have heard of tech support people being nice and doing strange things they are not allowed to do, however, and giving you a geforce 2go instead of a Mobility M4 for example if you need to replace your GFX card. I think you *ARE* allowed to change things yourself IF that's what tech support wants you to do on second though. However, I stick by my claim that if you open up your laptop and upgrade something without Dell's explicit permission you will void your warranty.

If you want to sell me your Geforce 2go, i'll happily take it off your hands for a good price, depending on the memory.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Dell won't sell the Geforce 2go, nor any internal laptop components, this i'm POSITIVE of! Trust me, I was one of MANY people on their support boards whining about how we want an upgrade and Dell won't give us one!

Alright, then heres what you do.

Call 1-800-456-3355, option #1, after the prompt enter 69937, then option #5, then option #3. The salesperson will ask you some information about yourself. After you two break the ice, ask the salesperson about part number 4D597. He/She will then inform you that its an nvidia 32MB card, as well as the current price. You can then place an order for it, and they will send it to you. After you complete the order, they are supposed to inform you of the warranty information for the part, and they should say that its warranted for 90 days or the remaining warranty of your computer, whichever is longer.

I have heard of tech support people being nice and doing strange things they are not allowed to do, however, and giving you a geforce 2go instead of a Mobility M4 for example if you need to replace your GFX card. I think you *ARE* allowed to change things yourself IF that's what tech support wants you to do on second though. However, I stick by my claim that if you open up your laptop and upgrade something without Dell's explicit permission you will void your warranty.

Well, everytime I have ever asked them *anything* about the warranty, its either "I don't know" or "No, that does not void your warranty".

/me shrugs

But, lets assume that dell did void your warranty. How the hell are they supposed to tell that you opened up your laptop? There arent any warranty seals anywhere on dell laptops, unlike other brands that have them all over. For all dell could know or prove, I just ordered that card as an ornament for my mantle.

If you want to sell me your Geforce 2go, i'll happily take it off your hands for a good price, depending on the memory.

Nay, its already got a new owner. Besides, your laptop might even be compatible with an M9. It's only the geforce 4 thats very picky about motherboards IIRC. The main concern is your screen.

 

[nephalim]

Alright, then heres what you do.

Call 1-800-456-3355, option #1, after the prompt enter 69937, then option #5, then option #3. The salesperson will ask you some information about yourself. After you two break the ice, ask the salesperson about part number 4D597. He/She will then inform you that its an nvidia 32MB card, as well as the current price. You can then place an order for it, and they will send it to you. After you complete the order, they are supposed to inform you of the warranty information for the part, and they should say that its warranted for 90 days or the remaining warranty of your computer, whichever is longer.



Well, everytime I have ever asked them *anything* about the warranty, its either "I don't know" or "No, that does not void your warranty".

* AlphaWolf shrugs

But, lets assume that dell did void your warranty. How the hell are they supposed to tell that you opened up your laptop? There arent any warranty seals anywhere on dell laptops, unlike other brands that have them all over. For all dell could know or prove, I just ordered that card as an ornament for my mantle.



Nay, its already got a new owner. Besides, your laptop might even be compatible with an M9. It's only the geforce 4 thats very picky about motherboards IIRC. The main concern is your screen.

Well, thanks for the info. I'll certaintly give it a try.

As for the M9, I don't think so. I have an Inspiron 8000, Which has an 815e intel chipset mobo (they later offered a modified 815e, I think it was an 815em or something like that, which had some minor changes such as speedstep work properly. )I think they upgraded the mobo's when they upgraded the 8000 to the 8100, one reason would be supporting the M9. I'm nearly certain that my mobo (and bios for that matter!) only supports the M4 and the 2go. I'd love to be informed otherwise, however.

Obviously the 2go would be a far better card for N64 emulation (not much faster, though, ironically the 32mb M4 (and only the 32mb one) has a 350mhz ramdac as opposed to the 250mhz? one,) and it's decently fast for N64 emulation, it even has a proper framebuffer! Too bad ATI/Dell doesn't give a crap about making a proper API for the damn thing. The real question is is how much of a compatibility/feature upgrade would it be...is it worth tearing my system apart, possibly (albeit unlikely) fucking it up royally (which, for sure, is not covered under warranty.)

Now, about my screen...why? What's the deal with my screen? I for sure have a nice high-quality screen. As I said, REFURBISHED Dell charged $650 for them, new IIRC they are nearly $900 for the SXGA and $1000 for UXGA. I'm very happy with my screen...my new one doesn't have a single dead pixel!
(Dell replaced it, for free, 'cause when I sent in my system "under warranty" they said it wasn't covered due to my negligence (which it was, realistically,) citing that I opened it as *one* reason, they said the screen needed to be replaced as well, due to a stain over about 1/8th in the corner. They refuse to fix just what you want, if you want the warranty to be valid you have to fix anything that even RESEMBLES not PERFECT, and the price was RIDICULOUSLY high (I wound up paying $700 to fix a 2 year old machine! Damn the fact I didn't have an extra $200 to buy a better one,) they didn't charge for the screen otherwise there would be no way in hell it would be worth it.)

If it wasn't for the video card, and the FSB/memory type, I'd be very happy with my machine, confident it would last me another 2 years...

(Small side note: is it even possible to build a laptop, or *really* upgrade an existing one? Proper casing & cooling systems would be near impossible to design, I think.)


-------

Back on the topic of resolution, would setting a special resolution of 700x525 really be worth it? Would having the N64 plugin do the scaling, in this case, instead of my video card be worth it? (or does the N64 plugin do more than simple "scaling," rendering at the set resolution, thus making the graphics better?)

(Another side note: I suggest not to buy an XGA or SXGA screen if you plan on gaming. They scale properly to NOTHING. Go for the UXGA, which can scale 2x 800x600, or if money is an issue, an SXGA offers very little benefit over an XGA, however with the SXGA you can do 2x 640x480 (and 320x240) non-scaled and have a near full screen...I have said, however, that i've never noticed scaling problems.)

 

[Tagrineth]

Obviously the 2go would be a far better card for N64 emulation (not much faster, though, ironically the 32mb M4 (and only the 32mb one) has a 350mhz ramdac as opposed to the 250mhz? one,) and it's decently fast for N64 emulation, it even has a proper framebuffer! Too bad ATI/Dell doesn't give a crap about making a proper API for the damn thing. The real question is is how much of a compatibility/feature upgrade would it be...is it worth tearing my system apart, possibly (albeit unlikely) fucking it up royally (which, for sure, is not covered under warranty.)

A proper API? OpenGL and Direct3D not good enough for you? :flowers:

And yes, ATi does rock at framebuffer effects, but every video card for a long time has had a "proper framebuffer". Otherwise they wouldn't display an image...

Back on the topic of resolution, would setting a special resolution of 700x525 really be worth it? Would having the N64 plugin do the scaling, in this case, instead of my video card be worth it? (or does the N64 plugin do more than simple "scaling," rendering at the set resolution, thus making the graphics better?)

Your native resolution is 1400x1050. That's a rather high resolution for laptop chipsets (GF2/4MXGo and M9 might be able to take it, but definitely not M4).

700x525 is exactly 1/4 your native res. That means, scaled, every 2x2 block of pixels at 1400x1050 will be the same colour. In other words, there's no scaling problem whatsoever; no odd pixel ratios or anything. It's the purest "scale" physically possible (you could go /3 on each dimension instead of /2, but you get a decimal result so you'd need a border of some sort).

Basically at 700x525 you would have no scaling artefacts whatsoever.

 

[nephalim]

Your native resolution is 1400x1050. That's a rather high resolution for laptop chipsets (GF2/4MXGo and M9 might be able to take it, but definitely not M4).

700x525 is exactly 1/4 your native res. That means, scaled, every 2x2 block of pixels at 1400x1050 will be the same colour. In other words, there's no scaling problem whatsoever; no odd pixel ratios or anything. It's the purest "scale" physically possible (you could go /3 on each dimension instead of /2, but you get a decimal result so you'd need a border of some sort).

Basically at 700x525 you would have no scaling artefacts whatsoever.

Yes, I understand that fully (Except for the part that my video card can't handle output at the resolution it's ALWAYS using without issue.) That's the point. The question was should I have a plugin (if this is even possible) emulate at 700x525, thus the PLUGIN is doing the scaling as no N64 game was made for 700x525. I, however, don't know how N64 gfx rendering works, and perhaps the resolution it's rendered to doesn't make a big difference. The other or was should I have the plugin emulate 640x480 or whatever is best (i'm pretty sure it's 640x480 in almost all cases,) and then let my graphics card take card of the rest (scaling.) The other option, if having the plugin do 700x525 isn't possible or isn't the best choice, would be having the plugin do 1400x1050, and having the plugin do the scaling and have my graphics card have no role in that.

I already asked this, but things have gotten muddled.

MAJOR side note: having system problems. Everything was working fine until I installed Visual Studio 6 SP5. I chose not to reboot immediately, and it said I needed to reboot and it failed to install. Then, my computer starting going very slow. I rebooted and reinstalled the service pack. It didn't ask for a reboot this time, and seemed to have worked. Computer still going slow. I rebooted again. Still going slow. I uninstalled Visual Studio 6 completely...still going slow. System restore is off (turned it off for something and forgot to turn it back on :doh: )

What do I do? Why is my computer acting like I have too many processes running? I took a look at the task manager and it shows my CPU usage fluctuating between 25-100%. The problem is, the usage is split up over many different programs that ran fine before, including system processes. Basically instead of the little 1-3% blips, i'm getting 20% blips! HELP!

 

[AlphaWolf]

As for the M9, I don't think so. I have an Inspiron 8000, Which has an 815e intel chipset mobo (they later offered a modified 815e

Then again, maybe so. Several inspiron 8000 users have reported success with this card. My inspiron 8000 was made just prior to the 8100 being sold, so I am fairly confident that mine should work. In fact, the word is that the M9 is more compatible than the GF4. I already know that this card is compatible with my screen. If for some reason its not compatible I can probably sell it on e-gay for more than I paid for it to an international customer who can't order spare parts, or I can probably return it within the 30 days (not 100% sure about that though).

 

[Tagrineth]

Yes, I understand that fully (Except for the part that my video card can't handle output at the resolution it's ALWAYS using without issue.) That's the point. The question was should I have a plugin (if this is even possible) emulate at 700x525, thus the PLUGIN is doing the scaling as no N64 game was made for 700x525. I, however, don't know how N64 gfx rendering works, and perhaps the resolution it's rendered to doesn't make a big difference. The other or was should I have the plugin emulate 640x480 or whatever is best (i'm pretty sure it's 640x480 in almost all cases,) and then let my graphics card take card of the rest (scaling.) The other option, if having the plugin do 700x525 isn't possible or isn't the best choice, would be having the plugin do 1400x1050, and having the plugin do the scaling and have my graphics card have no role in that.

How cute :flowers:

There's no "scaling" going on. Display lists are HLE'd, so any resolution can be used.

Geometry is processed without a "resolution", so regardless how many pixels you're using, you'll always get the same end result on the display, provided you keep the viewport at a similar aspect ratio...

Or do you really think any N64 games were designed to use 1024x768? :flowers:

Most N64 games use a resolution somewhere around 320x240. Some hi-res games use 512x384. Some games are even adventurous enough to use 640x480... others use weird-sounding resolutions like 640x240, 512x240, 640x448... etc.

MAJOR side note: having system problems. Everything was working fine until I installed Visual Studio 6 SP5. I chose not to reboot immediately, and it said I needed to reboot and it failed to install. Then, my computer starting going very slow. I rebooted and reinstalled the service pack. It didn't ask for a reboot this time, and seemed to have worked. Computer still going slow. I rebooted again. Still going slow. I uninstalled Visual Studio 6 completely...still going slow. System restore is off (turned it off for something and forgot to turn it back on :doh: )

Hmm... find and download RegCleaner, install that, and see if there are any resident settings left for VS6?

What do I do? Why is my computer acting like I have too many processes running? I took a look at the task manager and it shows my CPU usage fluctuating between 25-100%. The problem is, the usage is split up over many different programs that ran fine before, including system processes. Basically instead of the little 1-3% blips, i'm getting 20% blips! HELP!

Hah, that doesn't beat what happened the other day. I don't know how, and it fixed itself after two reboots, but Explorer.exe was using 99% of my CPU time and wasn't relinquishing it (temp fix: Set low priority. :flowers: ).

 

[AlphaWolf]

Think in terms of vector graphics, only in this case its 3D.