Banjo-Tooie stability discussion

[ScottJC]

Nope, thats not it, my normal gaming is fine and Banjo Tooie is the only n64 rom that does it. Mine aint overclocked. 4real looks like he is using on board video.

Doom 3/Half life 2/Psychonauts/Hitman Contracts have never crashed and i've played all of them for hours at a time [these push my graphics hardware a bit more than Banjo Tooie ].

 

[Smiff]

i don't mean an unstable system, just certain speeds or certain video cards (if its related to the plugin in any way, i think not) may explain why some people see hangs and some don't.. that sounds unlikely but there is an interesting timing problem in this game where not all parts are synced together to the core, note the music speed not changing as vi/s changes.
btw i tried 1.5 and saw same hangs in demos, haven't actually played that yet.

4real if you could list your ROM version, complete pj and plugin settings that may help. are you really getting no hangs or error of any kind now?

 

[4real]

Still testing and yes no hangs at all with 1.5.2gfxplugin seems stable after over 20 hours of play and keeping the game on start loop demo.

Getting great speed as picture above shows.

Using :

Pj64 v1.6 default settings (as it would be if just installed)
Jabo direct 3d6 1.5.2 gfx (self rendered textures off)
Full screen resolution 640x480 16bit.
Jabo 1.6 sound.
Nrage directinput 8 V21.80a plugin
Rom version :- E(M4)
Beta rdb b7

If i change to 1.6 gfx the system crashes after about 20 to 1 hour into game but this can be random.

THis also is interesting changed back to old rdb and game crashed within 20 mins of play using 1.5.2gfx.

Changed back to beta b7 everything running fine again not one crash.

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

but there is an interesting timing problem in this game where not all parts are synced together to the core, note the music speed not changing as vi/s changes.

I'm not surprised, because with Banjo-Kazooie, (which is what the game's code is likely derived from. The changes are about the same amount as Zelda: Ocarina of Time Master Quest vs. the original Zelda: Ocarina of Time, for example) I did notice that the character movement isn't in sync with the music.

Thus, I'm not surprised to see the same problem with Banjo-Tooie, too.

Also, Smiff, (a little bit off-topic) with earlier versions of Project64, I have saw a minor bug before, the bug of where despite the game is going at normal speed, the V/Is are often only in the 40s. I only confirmed that problem with one game, which was Snowboard Kids 1.

 

[ScottJC]

That's total rubbish, the difference between master quest and oot is just some dungeon layouts, the game content remains pretty much the same, the difference between Banjo-Tooie and Banjo-Kazooie is obvious, better graphics, larger levels, longer game.

Banjo-Tooie was rares last game on the n64, Banjo-Kazooie was one of the first, the core is likely closer to DK64's.

Seriously, look at the graphics, look at the length of the game, there is major differences like the ability to split up and hang on edges, you can play as Mumbo etc.

This is like saying Matrix 2 is the same movie as Matrix. BT is a sequel, Master Quest is an Addon, theres the difference.

Then there is the encryption chip rare put in Banjo-Tooie to make it harder for emulators to work. Banjo-kazooie never had that.

 

[Jesterhead]

I think most of the code of Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie are the same, they look the "same", Recycling at its best :blush:
Only my opinion, of course :bouncy:
I dont think that Rare created for every game a new Engine, or modified the old much, sorry if i misunderstand you :blush:

 

[4real]

Just a little update :

Still going and not one crash with 1.5.2 gfx(pj64 1.6 default)

 

[Smiff]

4real,
remind me what happens when you play on v1.6 video plugin?
and did you start this game in Project64?

 

[4real]

Started a fresh game in pj64 with 1.6 plugin after approx 20 mins into game the game freezed while jumping to get cheat page.(this seems a common place for me for the game to crash.)

After crash changed to 1.5.2 gfx and start where i left off been ok untill changing back to old rdb then crashed on speaking part to mumbo in first world.

So changed back to beta b7 and game has been ok and not crashed once and now into 29hours off play.

Don't know why its not crashing but its running a treat and running great best emu performance on this game as well.

 

[Lillymon]

Banjo-Tooie was rares last game on the n64,

Although you were right on just about everything else, I'm pretty sure that Conker's Bad Fur Day was Rare's last game for the Nintendo 64.

 

[ScottJC]

yes; you're right, meant to say one of rarewares last games.

 

[4real]

Well after many hours of testing 1.5.2 gfx seem's very stable and still no crashing.

 

[Gent]

so 1.5.2 with latest RDB = still going no probs but with D3D8 and same RDB = Freezing and a crash?

 

[ScottJC]

so 1.5.2 with latest RDB = still going no probs but with D3D8 and same RDB = Freezing and a crash?

I finally got around to trying that setup myself, I installed the latest RDB, set up 1.5.2 as graphics plugin (disabled self rendering textures)

If you leave Self Rendering Textures on the Jiggywiggy puzzle is incredibly slow, the only other effect it has is the pause menu background... it doesn't bother me one bit to be without that, saves me having to enter the plugin settings!

Did This:
01: Started a new game, watched the Intro.
02: Game started then, messed around in spiral mountain for 5 minutes.
03: Went to see that book thing that gives you cheats (think his name is cheato)
04: Defeated Klungo, he was using his multiply potion.
05: Messed around in Isle of Hags for a few minutes.
06: Went to see King Jingaling, watched the cutscenes again.
07: went downstairs for 20 minutes leaving the game running.
08: went to see Jiggywiggy to open Mayahem Temple
09: played through Mayahem temple, got 8 jiggys there.
10: opened the next 2 worlds with jiggywiggy.
11: saved the game through the in-game menu.
12: closed project64.

All in all this took me 2 hours, but I experienced no crashes... never been able to play that long in Project64 1.6 without a crash, I believe there must be something wrong with Jabo's 1.6 video plugin now.

It was difficult to tell because the rom settings were also causing the same problem so now it seems the rom settings are perfectly stable, however the 1.6 plugin is not - it seems to be causing the same error.

Jabo's Direct3D8 1.6 definitely causes crashes i'm confident of that.

 

[The True PYRO]

I played Banjo-Tooie on PJ64. First, it crashed at that mole persons house. I restarted, got it through that part, and then crashed somewhere else. I don't remember exactly where.

 

[ScottJC]

Download the latest rdb, install it and use 1.5.2 video plugin. You probably won't get any more crashes.

 

[Smiff]

ScottJC, from what you said here and here
http://www.emutalk.net/showthread.php?p=276545#post276545

you seem to be saying the 1.6 video plugin is the cause of a crash - this is something i thought of and disregarded (possibly wrongly) - do you mean the hang in game (what i see, where counters stop, but app doesn't crash) - precisely what "crash" does using the D3D6 video plugin fix?
thanks

edit: sorry ScottJC you seem to have already confirmed this, i'm on a very slow connection and hadn't read the last few posts.
however... this doesn't tally, if v1.6 plugin is cause of hang, why do you say v1.5 also hung? please clarify, i think we're talking about different issues.

 

[ScottJC]

Eh? you're confusing me, I must've said version 1.5 of Project64 crashed. Project64 1.6 with the 1.5.2 video plugin however does not seem to crash. -- with your latest rdb of course. Project64 1.5 may have been just as easily solved with your rdb updates.

Afterall, the emulator used to cause these crashes itself until you altered the rom settings, but it seems that 1.6 of the video plugin causes a very similar crash.

There seems to be Two causes of this problem, Number One: Project64 with the incorrect settings, and Number Two: Jabo's Direct3D8 1.6.

meaning you solved one but the other one was doing it too which made it seem like the problem was still there.

 

[Smiff]

ok ScottJC we're both together and for the first time (i think i) have a clear handle (or at least, a place to work from) on what's wrong with PJ64... thank you for sticking with this, i might sound like an idiot at times but it's hard to keep things straight in your head with so many variables.

no-one take this as 100% sure the problem is in Jabo's D3D8, (1) we still have no sure steps to reproduce (2) this will probably need some work with Jabo, which probably can't happen for some time.

 

[ScottJC]

Not a problem, I just hope that we've finally found the route of the problem.