Interesting debate on existance of god, worth a read

[sytaylor]

dont you see? i dont want to be saved... the idea of islam is something I DONT WANT... not by ignorance... by choice... i would rather think what I want to think and IF i ever get judged (whcih i dont think i will), then id rather be judged on who i am... and if whoever/whatever doesnt do that fine, i lived a good life!! i dont live for the afterlife, i live for life!!!!

i have nothing to fear from not believeing... i can justify what i do, and as such you cant proove me wrong for now wanting to give my life to a religion

im happy being a non believer... i live a good life, i know happiness, i know love.. and yet i dont have religion... for me that is evidence that the true miricle on earth is not a creator but life itself

 

[sytaylor]

well u dont get it
no muslim want to kill him self

how can you speak for1 billion people?

 

[RPGlover12]

u just dont want the after life dont u
i wont like the idea of u

there is no need for life
i dont want to live my life except to the after life
i pray and worship god for the after life
nothin else
and u dont believe in anything
and as i told u before i wont surrender unless i make u believe with a good proof
i've got a proof already hope that u like it
its a true story that happened in this age
here it is
"about a lady was workin as a nurse

(there is somethin called dajjal it means to know what happenes its not true but some guys believe in it)
she was a nurse and a dajjal
she put the amal(a think to make the dajjal work)
in the mouth of the died to make the amal work
and allah made any one who believes and a muslim spit it if its putten in his mouse
and she put it in a muslim mouth and sewed his mouth so that he wont spit it
and she went to the kabba 3 times
every time she doesn't see the kaba and the muhammed grave
she called a shiek and he told her
"allah is angry at u and u're not a muslim any more"
and when she died
20 people where carrying her grave to burry her
they heard this in a very very very loud voice "throw the coffin and run"
the voice was very loud that they didn't here their voice
and they didn't run and didn't throw it
they continued and they heard it again
this time all of the guys left except her son
and he heard "throw the coffin and run and dont look back "
he didn't the first time
the 2nd time
he heard it he did it
and when he looked back
he saw a fire from earth to the sky burning the coffin and half of his face was burned "

can u believe that allah's rage could do this to someone for doing this only

wow
this well happen to u in the grave judgement

 

[RPGlover12]

how can you speak for1 billion people?

cause if u speak to any muslim
do u want to die in shahada
he will tell u yes
if u asked him do u want to kill ur self
he will say no
ask any muslim and u'll see

 

[Braveheart]

Trying to keep my head completely out of the water in this one, all I would like to point out is that by definition, science isn't a correct "axium" (sic).

Scientists have been wrong before, and they will be wrong again, I won't even bother going in to examples. The theories used to prove your much-hailed scientific "fact" are just that - THEORIES. Purely theoretical, speculative, hypothetical.

Now by definition, mathematics is correct, so if you can prove to me BY PURE MATHEMATICS that God simply cannot exist, then I'll take your arguments a bit more seriously. But I don't think you're going to do that now, are you?

That is all... and by the way, it's spelt "axiom" .

Stuart Macdonald
-- Emulation64.com Server Admin

 

[sytaylor]

cause if u speak to any muslim
do u want to die in shahada
he will tell u yes
if u asked him do u want to kill ur self
he will say no
ask any muslim and u'll see

damn where are the police records when you need them? i BET YOU a muslim has commited suicide

 

[sytaylor]

Trying to keep my head completely out of the water in this one, all I would like to point out is that by definition, science isn't a correct "axium" (sic).

Scientists have been wrong before, and they will be wrong again, I won't even bother going in to examples. The theories used to prove your much-hailed scientific "fact" are just that - THEORIES. Purely theoretical, speculative, hypothetical.

Now by definition, mathematics is correct, so if you can prove to me BY PURE MATHEMATICS that God simply cannot exist, then I'll take your arguments a bit more seriously. But I don't think you're going to do that now, are you?

That is all... and by the way, it's spelt "axiom" .

Stuart Macdonald
-- Emulation64.com Server Admin

this is true, but i prefer theories to stories, theories can be prooved or disprooved at some point... with a story you just modify your argument and use the story to back it up :-/

 

[Slougi]

cause if u speak to any muslim
do u want to die in shahada
he will tell u yes
if u asked him do u want to kill ur self
he will say no
ask any muslim and u'll see

RPGlover stop telling lies. There is a good many muslims that are very poor and miserable and surely many of those have thought about that or hoped to pass away from this life. Grow up. Well tou are only 13 I am not blaming you for the stuff you say or believe in; that is for everyone to choose on his own. But do please view the world a bit more critically and realistically.

 

[RPGlover12]

dont get me wrong
like a normal die
he will say yes
and a shahada also yes
but a sucide
nope that what i meant
get it

 

[RPGlover12]

RPGlover stop telling lies. There is a good many muslims that are very poor and miserable and surely many of those have thought about that or hoped to pass away from this life. Grow up. Well tou are only 13 I am not blaming you for the stuff you say or believe in; that is for everyone to choose on his own. But do please view the world a bit more critically and realistically.

well am not blaming my self and i do believe what i say and i do say it fully minded
and i know what i believe in
and what am sayin
and am sure 100 percent that what i say
is what i believe in
100 percent
as sytaylor said that he wont believe in religion and god
i wont believe in any other religion
cause i've been given the chance
and i choose this religion
and i know that its true
i know what am saying
ok
so dont make stuff
i know what am writtin
and if i have to give my life for islam and allah
my money my family anything that allah would accept it
if i had a chance to fight with palastene i will
or fight with afganstan
i will do it to die as a shahed (as shahada)
i will do anything for that
but i also want to live to see jesus and antichrist coming to this earth
i want to see the judgement day come to this earth
wanna see what will happen
gog and magog
wow i want to see it
but i dont want to get judged

am sayin this as my opinoin
i really want to die in war

 

[sytaylor]

so what would happen if you died in a car crash tomorrow?

 

[RPGlover12]

well i will be in heaven ofcourse
i will also take the shahada
and i will be happy
and i wont take any judgement in the judgment day
that what i want forever
i just want to see what will happen at the end of the days
and the last hour
jesus and anti christ
muhammed ebn abdullah
in other way
the major signs
wow that would be reall good

 

[sytaylor]

but the thing is, if you just died you wouldnt know any different... so as you see what im arguing is not pretty and lot of people dont want to believe it... it just makes more sense to me

 

[RPGlover12]

well i wont get judged at the judgement day
i wont get the torture of the grave
i will go to the seventh heaven without any help
i will always be in heaven
i will do whatever i want
i will be like an angel
my face from light
body from light
sit on light
walk on light
sleep on light
that's in the seventh heaven
if it's lowered
it wll be less
not many
but u will see allah anyway
and thats the best thing
i just want to see allah
see the prophets
see the angels
see everything i didn't see
everything i dont know
get it

 

[adi]

I believe in God because of this reason : every piece of matter you see before you was created from something else. Quite frankly, I think the idea of one omnipotent presence who created the universe is far more believable than the big bang theory and evolution etc. IT IS possible for religion to coexist with evolution, you just have to be open-minded to the possibility that maybe God intended it to be that way. I chose Christianity for personal reasons but I can't say everything in the Bible is correct. It was written by many different humans talking about identical events so theres bound to be miscrepancies in it. I chose my faith because it just feels right and I've just seen no concrete evidence to disprove it.

However there's nothing more that annoys me than a religious zealot who rams their faith down everyone elses throat. I'm an open minded person who chose to believe in God. I don't care what religion anyone is as long as you tolerate and try to live in peace with each other. However as this topic has shown, some people are considerably unable to do that...........

 

[sytaylor]

I believe in God because of this reason : every piece of matter you see before you was created from something else. Quite frankly, I think the idea of one omnipotent presence who created the universe is far more believable than the big bang theory and evolution etc. IT IS possible for religion to coexist with evolution, you just have to be open-minded to the possibility that maybe God intended it to be that way. I chose Christianity for personal reasons but I can't say everything in the Bible is correct. It was written by many different humans talking about identical events so theres bound to be miscrepancies in it. I chose my faith because it just feels right and I've just seen no concrete evidence to disprove it.

Of couse a creator is easier to believe, why do you think most religions make that natural assumption? because every 10th generation someone is born with a tatoo of instructions? heck no. The "big bang" theory only explains our solar system, not the whole universe... its not an argument aginest creation, its an argument for evolution. I fundamentally disagree that what the bible says is "gospel truth", what i do think is that there are a good set of morals in there for those willing to read between the lines.

Faith feels right in my opinion because its far nicer to believe... my standpoint? i dont know what or what is not out there, but i certainly dont think the bible tells me... im not saying there is or isnt a creator, im saying i dont know, and neither do religions... they have faith in... but do not know

 

[Reznor007]

i wont believe in any other religion
cause i've been given the chance
and i choose this religion
and i know that its true

Well I know it's false

 

[sk8bloke22]

yeh Braveheart ur right. but in that same sense, if i proposed that pigs can actually fly when we are not looking, i bet it would be difficult to find a mathamatical equation to disprove that. as i said, something so abstract is difficult to officially disprove, of course u can look at a pig, look at the physics of it, and pretty much logically guess that pigs hav no understandleable method of flying. the theory of god is much harder than that even, as u can look at a pig, u cant look at god. u can do wat abraham did, an look at all the visible elements of the earth (sun, moon, etc) and conclude that something must hav created them. or u can look at a more aethiest view, where considering the earth to be a young planet in comparison to wat ppl know about other parts of the universe, and considering that hummans are a young and new race in comparison to other species on the earth...u can conclude that the ideas of science are still too premature to understand the origins of our creation. that doesnt mean that there is necessarily a god (its so abstract to disprove remember), but it does mean theres a some missing evidence, or something undiscovered that will enter our understanding of the world. its the evolution of science really. take the telescope, before that ppl's understanding of the world were based on early scientific observations...the sun revolves around the earth. it took one simple device to disprove that instantly. and yes, science is always making mistakes, thats becos its falsifiable, its cant be concrete, hence theres always room for improvement. take the telescope thing again. first thoughts after the discovery of the telescope were that the earth revolves around the sun. following that, this idea changed, or more like evolved, with the avancement of telescope technology, indicating that infact the sun and our entire galaxy, could be one out of lots of different galaxies. these are remarkable discoveries, but wats more they are still open to being disproved. the more human technological advances grow, the more we discover. which is wat will leave this debate open until that discovery was made.

 

[RPGlover12]

guys i wanna ask u a question
why didn't u read the quran
didn't study the islam
and quran
was written by only one person (dont remember his name)
and they made copies after that
the same copies didn't change anything in it
not even a letter
thats why we say that islam is the religion of allah

ok here is somethin sytaylor
when i asked u who created earth , human , jinns , skies ,trees,plants and everything in this whole damn planet
lets take it one by one u told me u dont know right ok lets go
1st : earth : who created it who made the mountains rivers etc....
2nd :human: who created them they were only a small sperm ??
3rd :jinns: well its a hard thing how somethin like 4 feet long we can't see them who made them invicible to us ?????
4th :skies: who created 7 skies and we even couldn't see except one and without even walls so it wont fall
5th :trees: who made a small seed become the largest thing ever
who made the seed a tree and long beautifull tree
6th : religions: who made this religion ??
lets talk about religion in the first place

i'll talk about islam

Muhammad (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) also brought an Arabic Quran that is the peak of eloquence and clarity. The Quran challenged those eloquent and fluent Arabs of his time, who initially belied him, to bring forth a single chapter like the quran. The eloquent Arabs of his day were unable to contest this Quran.
Indeed, till our day, none has ever dared to claim that he has been able to compose words that equal-or even approach-the order, grace, beauty, and splendor of this Glorious Quran

who made this

explain it

sytaylor
or any other unbeliever

ofcourse there is a huge power up there that made that
who created :devil:
of course there is a huge power up there that made him
and that power is allah
the creator of this universe
the creator of everything
the creator of human plants cells solar system
he is the only god with no partner nor son nor wife nor anybody else except himself

and he sent messages to this earth
to make people believe in him
and worship him
and he said that the last message will be sent to this earth will be islam
thats why he loved muhammed very much
thats why he made him go to the 7th skies
and to the shagrat el nehaea (the tree of end)
muhammed nearly saw him
(most of the experts say that he saw him other say not)
my self i say he didn't see him

thats why i believed in this message when i first studied it
get it

 

[sk8bloke22]

"This disproves the most widely accepted version of God. God is supposively omniscent (all-knowing), omnipotent (all-powerful), omnibenevolent (all-good), and omnipresent (existing everywhere at the same time).

Omnipotence
First off let's define desire. A desire is a wish or craving for something you don't yet possess, filling a sense of emptiness. Can god desire something without being in conflict with his omnipotence? I certainly believe not. What about god creating the world because he was lonely? For this I will summon up a hypothetical situation: if you are the only person existing, what are you contrasting loneliness to? Loneliness can not be contrasted with anything if only god existed.

Omniscence and Omnipotence
Can God tell what you will do in two days? If yes, then is it possible to do some action contrary to what God wishes within the two days? If you can bend God's will, then you are more powerful than God, and hence, God is not omnipotent. If God can't tell what you will do in two days, then God doesn't know everything, and hence, is not omniscent.

Free Will and Moral Evils
Omniscence and free will, clearly can not be reconciled, as stated above. If you have to do exactly what God wishes to be done, then you don't have freedom of choice, do you? Moral evils can no longer be blamed upon free will if free will itself doesn't exist.

Omniscence and Testing
Some people claim God is using us as test subjects. My question is, if God knows everything (omniscence), then why is he testing? He already is aware of the results. If he isn't aware of the results, then he isn't omniscent, and if he is aware of the results, then why is he testing people?"

Taken from some forum...

Wasn't that a fun exercise?