Dolby Surround

[Poobah]

(No, this is not a request thread.)

Today I decided to connect my computer up to my Logitech Z-5500D sound system to see if I could actually get surround sound, since Jabo and Smiff seem convinced that it works. The result: it didn't work.

I've tried this same sound system with CBFD, Banjo-Tooie, and a number of other N64 games on my real N64, and the surround sound is fantastic and extremely evident.

Here are the things I did:
-Connected the front-speakers output into one of the stereo inputs in the sound system.
-Set the sound-system's processing mode to Dolby Pro-Logic. (This includes PLI, PLII and Dolby Surround, and works great with a real N64.)
-Changed the number of speakers in the sound-card configuration screen to 2.
-Tested both channels (left and right), and they worked.
-Tried CBFD in Project 64, set to surround sound mode, and couldn't get anything more than stereo.

Here are the sound plugins I tried:
-Azimer's Audio 0.30 (Revision 2.2)
-Azimer's Audio 0.30 (Old Driver)
-Azimer's Audio 0.40 Beta 2
-Azimer's HLE Audio 0.56 Beta 2
-Azimer's LLE Audio 0.50 Beta 2
-Jabo's Directsound 1.6
-TR64 0.1
-Zilmar's Audio Plugin

I simply got plain stereo with all the plugins except for Zilmar's. With Zilmar's plugin, there was some quiet sound coming from the rear channels, but boosting their volumes showed that the correct rear channel still wasn't being output.

I'm suspecting that my integrated sound chip may have been doing something that prevented it from working, but I'm not entirely sure. My guess is that you must have a sound-card that can do the decoding itself. Has anyone here ever actually managed to get Dolby Surround working with an N64 emulator?

 

[ryan_rocks29]

Yes, I am pretty sure you need a 5.1+ sound card to make Dolby Surround work with PJ64. Dolby Surround worked perfectly in PJ64 with my old sound card (Sound Blaster Live!) and it still works perfectly with my new sound card (Audigy 2 ZS). So I would recommend buying a 5.1 or 7.1 sound card.

 

[squall_leonhart]

....

the most you will get out of a Nintendo 64 is Dolby Pro Logic II

why is this?

becoz the signal from the system is stereo.

there is only 2 channels.

i can make my system run surround sound simply by turning on the matrix button on my Z640's

 

[Poobah]

....

the most you will get out of a Nintendo 64 is Dolby Pro Logic II

why is this?

becoz the signal from the system is stereo.

there is only 2 channels.

i can make my system run surround sound simply by turning on the matrix button on my Z640's

Don't spam threads, and don't reply to threads unless you have actually read them.

 

[squall_leonhart]

i wasn't spamming you little sod now go crap elsewhere.

you don't have a multichannel dolby decoding sound card. so you won't get the effects of Dolby Pro Logic/II/Surround.

you need atleast a soundblaster live 5.1 for dolby decoding.

and note that using the digital port on the Zx5500 with any creative card. you can only get stereo channel... its a limitation of the sound card...

 

[Poobah]

the most you will get out of a Nintendo 64 is Dolby Pro Logic II

why is this?

becoz the signal from the system is stereo.

there is only 2 channels.

Both myself and the other poster are clearly well aware of what we're talking about. Your post was completely useless and wasn't in any way helpful, so I consider it spam.

i wasn't spamming you little sod now go crap elsewhere.

Don't be so childish.

you don't have a multichannel dolby decoding sound card. so you won't get the effects of Dolby Pro Logic/II/Surround.

That's why I connected it to my sound system. That's right, sound cards aren't the only hardware devices that can decode Dolby encoded audio. Stop trying to belittle others by pretending they don't know what they're talking about when you're clearly only just learning yourself.

you need atleast a soundblaster live 5.1 for dolby decoding.

Not necessarily. The second poster has already mentioned this, which I am already aware of, so your posting of this is completely unnecessary. I'm not asking, "What is Dolby decoding?", or "How can I use Dolby encoded sound?", so stop trying to sound smart by posting obvious facts that have not been requested.

I have already read ryan_rocks29's helpful post, so I don't need you to restate everything that he has already shared.

A quick solution has now been provided, so this thread should steer towards discussing why the audio is losing its extra channels before it reaches an external encoder.

 

[Smiff]

well i said we thought it should work, because it's an LLE audio emulator and supposed to be accurate.. perhaps theres a bug in the RSP or something more needed in the output that we don't understand.

but i'm confused. if the emulator isn't working properly, how is ryan_rocks29 getting true surround out of his SBLive! (assuming that card isn't doing some cheesy effect).

I am expecting a Virtual surround.. that is, from only two speakers, with the rear channels apparent. that is what N64 games were made for afaik, TVs with Dolby Virtual support (the N64 was released in 1996 and wasn't aimed at true 5.1 systems?)
turning that into real discrete multichannel is something extra that your sound card may or may not be able to do?

but Poobah is saying he doesn't even get Virtual, so something is wrong somewhere..

I will try this on my Virtual TV in a bit, and im not expecting it to work.
whats a good game with obvious surround effects thats easy to get to?

as you can see, im not fully clued up on this stuff, plus ive been away for 3 months so er go easy on me here

 

[Poobah]

Conker's Bad Fur Day has good surround sound on the part where you climb up the beach with bullets flying past the screen. I think that chapter is called "The Assault" in "It's War".

I might test it more extensively next weekend.

 

[Smiff]

is there any game that doesnt need any playing to hear it, or can someone post a good state please

 

[squall_leonhart]

the Sound system in question doesn't do pro logic II without a decoder.

the sound card is supposed to decode dolby surround protocols.

i've used the Z-5500D, and the only way to get surround is by buying a multichannel sound card and turning enabling 5.1 in the audio panel.

the emulator does do virtual surround Smiff, the poster just does'nt have the hardware required to do it.

but if he had a Dolby Pro Logic II reciever, he could connect a stereo > RCA cable to it and upmix it to Pro Logic II


I am sitting here right now.

with a Creative Live 5.1 sound card, hooked up to Analogue Logitect Z640 speakers.

Audio is being output through all 4 speakers.

if i turn on the matrix button it comes through the center speaker as well.

The user DOES NOT!, have a Multi channel sound card. hence he will not get the 4 speakers working.

BUT!

If he connects an RCA > Stereo cable, or RCA to RCA with a stereo adapter. into a recieve which can Do Dolby PLII upmixing then he will get surround.

the problem here. lies in hardware.

buy yourself a cheap Sound blaster Audigy 2 value. and it will work fine.

 

[Poobah]

the Sound system in question doesn't do pro logic II without a decoder.

That is incorrect.

the sound card is supposed to decode dolby surround protocols.

Most people prefer external decoders.

i've used the Z-5500D, and the only way to get surround is by buying a multichannel sound card and turning enabling 5.1 in the audio panel.

That's also incorrect.

Have a look at the official page detailing the product we are discussing.

the emulator does do virtual surround Smiff, the poster just does'nt have the hardware required to do it.

Both of those statements are incorrect; no N64 sound plugins nor emulators perform any special Dolby-related processing on the audio, as far as I know. And I do have the required hardware to decode Dolby Surround.

but if he had a Dolby Pro Logic II reciever, he could connect a stereo > RCA cable to it and upmix it to Pro Logic II

If you'd read my initial post, you would already be aware that I did connect it to my sound system, which is perfectly capable of decoding Dolby Surround/PL/PLII/Digital 5.1, as well as the majority of DTS encoded formats. As I said before, I'm not asking you how to decode Dolby-encoded audio. As I implied before, I would appreciate it if you would stop telling me what hardware I'm using and how to use my hardware and software; I'm well aware.

I am sitting here right now.

So?

with a Creative Live 5.1 sound card, hooked up to Analogue Logitect Z640 speakers.

Audio is being output through all 4 speakers.

if i turn on the matrix button it comes through the center speaker as well.

You have told us this before. Please stop telling me what your hardware is and how you are using it, because I am well aware and the information that you are providing isn't necessary, especially considering that most of it is incorrect and shows ignorance.

The user DOES NOT!, have a Multi channel sound card. hence he will not get the 4 speakers working.

Although I don't have a sound card, my integrated sound chip is perfectly capable of working with up to six channels, and works perfectly with a 5.1 setup. Stop assuming facts about my hardware; rather than just guessing what my hardware is capable of, try actually doing a small amount of research if you want to contribute.

BUT!

If he connects an RCA > Stereo cable, or RCA to RCA with a stereo adapter. into a recieve which can Do Dolby PLII upmixing then he will get surround.

Stop testing my patience.

the problem here. lies in hardware.

That's what I was assuming in the first post. If you think you know what the problem is, please enlighten me. I'm particularly interested in how exactly the Dolby encoded audio is encoded into the two channels, because I'm guessing that it simply uses frequencies that my sound chip is cutting off. I'm not exactly an audiophile though, so I don't know all that much about how these things work on a technical level.

buy yourself a cheap Sound blaster Audigy 2 value. and it will work fine.

Please do us both a big favour and read what is posted before replying. I have clearly stated that I am well aware of this quick fix to the problem, but that isn't what this thread is about.

 

[Poobah]

is there any game that doesnt need any playing to hear it, or can someone post a good state please

In CBFD, talk to the imp creature in the bar on the main menu, go to cheats, and input:

WELDERSBENCH

You can now go to Chapters, scroll across to "It's War" and then down to "The Assault".

 

[squall_leonhart]

tell me what onboard sound chip you have.

also, is it possible that your sound card isn't outputting the right frequncy?

asfaik anything below 22000 will result in the upmixing not working.

i can see that the surround system has dolby pro logic.

are you trying to use digital out on your onboard sound? most sound chips can only out put digital sound in stereo.

are you using Jabo's built in sound plugin, i've actually found theres no better plugin.. any others produce sounds that are either too bassy or to tinny.

ok heres how to fix it.

Stop trying to use dolby pro logic II and dolby surround. these are not required to get surround sound in the emulator

Connect the 3 Mini Stereo plugs from the sounds system into the sound cards F-R-C/B ports

go into your sound cards manager (realtek has the mixer, nv has the NVmixer and creative has audiohq in control panel).

and turn the speaker setting to 5.1.

go into windows sound settings
start > control panel > sounds and audio devices.

then click advanced under speaker settings and set it to 5.1 speakers.

go into Project 64 and select Jabo's plugin and start a game.

you should hear sound coming from the 4 surround speakers.

to get sound from the center, you may need to enable some sort of matrix mode.

 

[Poobah]

tell me what onboard sound chip you have.

Sound Card: Integrated AC97/Realtek/SiS 7012

also, is it possible that your sound card isn't outputting the right frequncy? asfaik anything below 22000 will result in the upmixing not working.

Well I don't know much about how exactly the encoded data is stored, but on the specifications page for my sound chip it says that it samples at 48Khz.

are you trying to use digital out on your onboard sound? most sound chips can only out put digital sound in stereo.

It only supports analogue, which is what I used during the test. The thing is, though, that I want it to output from my computer in stereo because that's how Dolby surround/PL/PLII works.

are you using Jabo's built in sound plugin, i've actually found theres no better plugin.. any others produce sounds that are either too bassy or to tinny.

As stated in my original post:

Here are the sound plugins I tried:
-Azimer's Audio 0.30 (Revision 2.2)
-Azimer's Audio 0.30 (Old Driver)
-Azimer's Audio 0.40 Beta 2
-Azimer's HLE Audio 0.56 Beta 2
-Azimer's LLE Audio 0.50 Beta 2
-Jabo's Directsound 1.6
-TR64 0.1
-Zilmar's Audio Plugin

 

[Poobah]

ok heres how to fix it.

Stop trying to use dolby pro logic II and dolby surround. these are not required to get surround sound in the emulator

Connect the 3 Mini Stereo plugs into the sound cards F-R-C/B ports

go into your sound cards manager (realtek has the mixer, nv has the NVmixer and creative has audiohq in control panel).

and turn the speaker setting to 5.1.

go into windows sound settings
start > control panel > sounds and audio devices.

then click advanced under speaker settings and set it to 5.1 speakers.

go into Project 64 and select Jabo's plugin and start a game.

you should hear sound coming from the 4 surround speakers.

to get sound from the center, you may need to enable some sort of matrix mode.

This theoretically shouldn't work because nothing would be decoding the Dolby Surround audio, so I would simply get stereo x 2. A few years ago I actually did this, thinking that I was getting Dolby Surround, but if you think about it logically then it's just dual stereo.

 

[squall_leonhart]

well actually. since the n64 is only stereo. thats what really happens.

Dolby Prologic II is upmixed by mixing sounds into the rear and center speakers based on there level of volume, pitch, etc.

once you have this connected, try setting your sound modes, such as dolby pro logic II and dolby surround.

 

[Poobah]

That's pretty-much what I have already done, as the initial post outlined. Since Dolby Surround is encoded into two analogue channels, only two analogue channels are required to transmit the data, which is why I only used the front speakers output from the computer. Doing it the way you have outlined would result in the front channels being output through both the front and back speakers, since Jabo's and Zilmar's sound plugins output sound in dual stereo.

 

[squall_leonhart]

well thats actually what Virtual surround is, as virtual surround is defined by the companies that make it that your stereo sound is mixed into you rear speakers.

but im just not sure of why you can't use pro logic to upmix from stereo...

it might be something to do with the frequencies. possibly the sound plugin doesn't output sound the same way the original nintendo 64 does.

 

[Poobah]

well thats actually what Virtual surround is, as virtual surround is defined by the companies that make it that your stereo sound is mixed into you rear speakers.

I know, and that's why I only chose to connect two channels to the sound-system.

but im just not sure of why you can't use pro logic to upmix from stereo...

it might be something to do with the frequencies. possibly the sound plugin doesn't output sound the same way the original nintendo 64 does.

Well that's why I've created this thread -- to find out.

 

[squall_leonhart]

Does Pro Logic work in other applications?

try playing some music and running Pro Logic II on the control pod.